Sorry TG you missed my point which was there is no reason to get the 125mbh oil furnace. Get a cheap oil burner or use the old one and a high end (tax credit qualifying) ASHP.
Though depending on electric rates aux strips might be cool too except the disposal of the tank issue.
IMO the worst thing to do is buy an oversized oil furnace, and there is no (tax credit) reason to.
j

Well, so far so good. The AC is on and the new condenser is really QUIET... I mean you can stand 2 feet away and have a conversation without straining... The house seems much more comfy now, especially upstair.

All of the house registers seem to be blowing about 30 % stronger than before plus some of the registers that barely gave anything (before), now seem to actually be working.

I really hope we made the right decision ref'd the oil furnace. I spoke with the HVAC installer about the 120k vs 85k. He doesnt think it is a big deal although the new unit is about 20% larger than the old one (it still easily fits in the utility area ...)

Also, everyone seems to be forgetting about the tax credit. We looked and looked... Did various internet searches, HVAC companies, oil companies, etc... and we could only find 120k oil/ heat pump hybrids eligible. If we had downsized to a comparable 85k furnace just for cost, it would have only have been $700 cheaper. That would net me nothing, based on my guaranteed $1500 credit (that means that my 85k system would have cost me an extra $800)... Because my former 85K system was 20 to 25 years old, everyone seems to think that my new more efficient 120k oil back up "should" net me about a 20% savings in oil usage = 300 gallons x .20 = 60 gallons...

I understand everyones concern but what else could I have done? We already have oil in our 550 gal tank (around 300 gals)... I didn't want to have to pump the oil out, and then pay someone to dig up and discard my old tank (my county requires that). Plus, oil heat feels so much warmer (and comfortable) than heat strips. Not to mention more efficient.

I am sure that lower BTU oil furnaces will eventually be added to the tax credit list as it makes no sense for there not to be... Believe me, when I say that would have preferred to have gone Geo...

Now , I have a Tax Eligible Certificate in hand, a much more comfortable house along with a very happy wife (again)!!!

The new Carrier "flat lcd" wall thermostat also looks cool. It reminds me of my ipod touch - except it doesnt play music :-)

Videojoe,

Couple of corrections are needed... 85K to 120K is a 40% increase. The higher Btu unit will be LESS efficient than the smaller one. The larger unit will heat your home quickly then shut down making your $800 savings a moot point. Electric resistance runs at 100% efficiency, a properly sized oil burner runs at 85% efficiency.

I'm glad you are happy with your new system, but I think you were given some bad advise along the way.

Bergy

You think that a brand new high efficiency- 2 stage blower oil furnace 120k btu will burn "more" oil than a 20 plus year oil 85k system? Doesnt one have to consider the efficiency of the oil furnaces (85% vs 50-60%)? My house is pretty tight - especially since we installed all new high efficiency Marvin windows and doors. I'm not arguing, just trying to understand... My newer V8 (5.3 liter) 300 hp SUV gets 21mpg on the hwy. While my 2000 V6 (3.7 liter) 240 hp truck only got 16mpg...

> unfortunately we just today had the hvac guy leave as our ac just stopped working

Hopefully this means that the AC stopped and then the hvac guy came. :-)

Standard oil furnaces have operated at 85% steady state efficiency for decades. I'm not saying your 20 year old unit is, but it could be. Any competent oil heat tech with the right gear can measure that. Stack gas temp and CO2 or O2 content tells the story

Note "steady state" (quite similar, now that I think about it to "mpg on the hwy")

Operating a 120k furnace in an 85k app will result in it spending most of its time warming up and cooling off, all at well below 85% efficiency. Oil burners haven't seen anywhere near the improvements made in car engines in the past decade. Moreover, if all you do with your car is drive 5-10 miles at a time around town, the mpg significantly drops.

30% tax credit on qualifying appliances up to $1,500 requires a high end ASHP, not necesssarily a qualifying oil furnace. One or the other must qualify, but not necessarily both. I've mentioned that 3 times but am failing in self experession again.
j

The purpose of this board is to exchange information and to educate.

I joined because I initially was headed toward Geo and trying to get a handle on all the associate costs, permits and time tables. I also had to look at alternative plans and expenses...

I, too, will mentioned it for the 3rd time... ;-)

I strongly prefer oil as back up to my HP vs using electric heating strips. The difference in comfort is HUGE...

The discussion has now shifted to the 120k vs 85k... but my system is NOW in place (smart idea or not).

The tax credit situation in my case did play a factor in my decision - maybe more so than necessary.

Only time will tell if the 120k burns more, less or about the same as my previous system. Our winters here in the DC area fluctuate quite a bit and so will my oil usage.

Only time will tell, if I made the right decision...

My role here is to now offer back a little of what I have learned in the most positive and informative way that my limited expertise can.

What this experience has taught me is that there is a LOT of misinformation from the HVAC industry as a whole. I have had no less than 4 "experts" at my house ( and another 2 or 3 from phone calls) from only well established trusted company's in the industry but only one of them has been truly unbiased towards the others products or opinions on tax credits, Geo or the current phase of the moon. That alone should cause concern by all on this board (consumer, installer or otherwise)

The statement that electric is 100% efficiency is misleading. It would appear that heating your house with electric is cheaper then heating with gas. If this were so, no one would be heating there house with propane, Natural gas or Oil.

 

1 Kwh of electricity contains 3412 BTU’s

1 gallon of heating oil contains 138,500 BTU’s

1 Kwh of electricity cost 12.75 cents in my area

1 gallon of home heating oil costs $2.54

 

In order for electric to produce the same heating BTU’s of one gallon of oil, it would cost $4.14. (assuming an 80% efficient oil heating system)

 

In order for electric to be cost effective, oil would have to cost $3.31 per gallon. While oil reached those levels last year, oil is been a cheaper heating method before than and is so now. (Again assuming oil is 80% efficient and an electric rate of   $0.1275 per Kwh.   

From the net (not my words, no idea if it is accurate):

"Manual S quotes studies by the US Department of Energy which show clearly that fossil fuel furnaces can be oversized up to 100% without a major lose in efficiency "

My whole point has been that the furnace needn't have any bearing on the tax credit. You could have stuck with the old one.
Electric strips were suggested by TG.
So while i wish you well with the system you purchased, in the interest of education....
A high efficiency ASHP on an old furnace will also qualify for a 30% tax credit ($1,500 cap).
good luck,
keep us posted,
Joe

But, why would I have spent that kind of money toward integrating a new heat pump with a 20 to 25 year old furnace?

The "hp" only option would have cost me $4000... So now I spend another 3k and get the entire system upgraded...

Or a high efficiency ASHP on any, ANY new furnace would qualify for a tax credit.
j

I found a Geothermal Heat Pump Manual at the following URL.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/downloads/pdf/geotherm.pdf