Posted By neotobeo on 07/06/2009 3:12 PM
I have tried to soak the loops as best I can; no way to tell if the water is penetrating down into the earth around the loops. the water the pools in the manifold pit boils off pretty quickly and despite a few thousand gallons on and around the loops holes, no change in performance - if anything the unit shuts off more quickly than before.

Posted By joe.ami on 07/05/2009 10:51 PM
Neo,
Who put in the ground loops? First or second guy?
j

Posted By neotobeo on 07/06/2009 12:29 AM
Joe:
 Our current best option is the add-on air source heat pump system to make the home habitable and safe to leave unoccupied
 
---No IMHO opinion your best bet is to fix what you have, but if you wish to take over design, you no longer require my assisstance.

(the 5 ton unit now needs to be manually reset every 30-40 minutes; I unearthed the manifolds and, I apologize for not having extremely accurate diagnostic equipment, all of the vapor lines are equally hot multiple feet away from the manifold; similarly the liquid lines are all similar temp (hot) multiple feet from the manifold

-----The pros here never asked you to diagnose, only Jonr who knows nothing that he hasn't read in the last 2 months. Nobody who knows DX is suprised that the lines are equally hot.

It is not clear to me how adding 2 more loops to the 5 would take the unit from being able to run for 30 minutes and not cool the home to being able to run all day with full load and be able to set a desire temp in the 70s and have it do that without high pressure limiting.
 
------It will do it the same way a car has more mmmph with a 6 cylinder than a 4. You currently have a big car with a little engine and it won't get up to high way speeds (who knew).
If you continue to read about geo, you will find that footprint is everything (water source or DX).

In my line of work (critical care medicine) many of the interventions have incredibly tight tolerances with microgram/kg/min changes leading to tremendous physiologic changes - I struggle to understand how the DX system could be that tightly designed.
 
-----It is not tightly designed, it is "rightly designed". Copper is expensive and no one wants to buy more than they have to. Your installer simply bought less than he needed to.

I know everyone feels like I am bashing the company
 
---you are. What you are doing is similar to my bashing all medicine because of one physicians malpractice, or further sueing pfieser because a doctor mis- prescribed one of their products.

 
Thanks for allowing me to vent - it is hot in here and it shouldn't be.

----I agree, you shouldn't be hot, but we have told you what's wrong, how to fix it and I even asked a question to help you fix blame, but you continue to rant, ignore our suggestions and blame manufacturer for a bad install. Forgive my rant, but if our answers are not worth heeding, why ask?
I really do wish you luck.
Joe

Posted By jonr on 07/06/2009 8:42 AM
 

Poor grouting was a good possibility

Posted By geo fan on 07/06/2009 4:57 PM


And DX systems are not designed that tight

Posted By neotobeo on 07/07/2009 10:45 PM
Joe:

I appreciated your prior comments, your rant, not appreciated.

---Come here to help in my spare time, not to hear or deliver rants. Yours aren't appreciated either and give me more to sort thru to find the meat of your complaints (took pages to answer the who installed the loop question), and help solve problems. Perhaps we can both take a break from them.
I have not taken over design.
 
-----You are ignoring recommended solutions and choosing a different path. By adding additional system you are taking over design or handing off to a third party.

I have made every attempt to get the company to communicate with me and the ground loop installer (first HVAC guy, to answer your question) as to the way to resolve our problem.

----Ahhhh first guy installed improperly sized loops. Now we know who is to blame. Why are we letting him off the hook again?

I paid for a geothermal system and do not currently have a functioning geothermal system. I had no way of knowing it was being put in incorrectly. Earthlinked referred me to the sales rep/installer and for that reason I am going through Earthlinked to have them assist in getting it corrected; the unstated implication that Earthlinked has no responsibility in these types of matters is ridiculous. They, however, are slow to respond; do not return calls. As a consumer, I have every right to voice my opinion and state facts.
 
-----Not disputing your right to be aggravated, just curious why it is not directed at the real culprit. I have no ego or investment where Earthlinked is concerned, but I do like responsibility to fall where it should. By all means if squeaky wheel gets you help from Earthlinked, go for it.
 
Fact: the system does not have enough grounds loops - I want the appropriate number of loops put in...turns out I don't have a drill rig. Hence, seeking Earthlinked's assistance...

----Why wouldn't you start with the first and second installer?

Fact: Earthlinked recommended the Air Source Desuperheater (they sell them) - I want the appropriate number of loops - again, no drill rig, and it would never have occurred to me to add an air source unit to a geothermal system (a larger water tank for the desuperheater, but not an air source unit) - again, Earthlinked recommended this fix. I didn't take over design.
 
----Most here voted against this fix.

Fact: The "job" has 500 feet where 700 feet are indicated (V1.5 loops for a 5 ton = 7x100 feet) - not 750 feet

----Ummm actually the 1.5 would indicate 5 loops @ 150' 0r 10 @ 75' though they may be suggesting that 2 additional 100' loops would be adequate.
Fact: The 2 ton system was not arbitrarily designed by the homeowner - the theater equipment (BTUs) specs were provided to the installer, heat load done = 2 ton recommendation

-----Well I asked as did others for heat loss/gain a few times and that was never clear. Your comment was that you wanted it for a future home theater.

Fact: Without consumers - Mechanics and Geothermal Heat Pump manufacturers would be out of business. The costumer is always right.
 
---Sorry, not even my customers are "always right" and you are a guy that is self described as "ranting". I'm not suggesting that your aggravation is unfounded, simply that your ire may be misplaced.
You say you appreciated my comments, I would presume that included my advice.