Chris,


here is the beef

http://www.architecturalproducts.co...specs.html

It is cost effective, depends on the area and volume you are purchasing, $2.0-$2.5/ft2.

Wayne, I assume that is a price for a sandwich panel??
Are those autoclaved FCB? And rated as sheathing?

Armoroc is not autoclaved FCB, it is called cement bonded particle board, rated as structural.

Cool. I wasn't paying attention.

Since it isn't autoclaved, how do they mitigate the alkalinity from the cement (portland I'm assuming)? Do you just use stainless fasteners?

There is a pricedure similar to auto clave called thermal stabalization after the board are cured for 10-15 days like most other concrete products. You don't need SS fasteners.

Cement bonded particle boards (CBPB) can be fastened to bearing structures with screws and special nails. All kinds of connecting elements should have antirust surface.
Attention! Before installing cement bonded particle boards it is necessary to check verticality and horizontality of frame elements. Frame elements need to be lie in the same plane.



Installation of cement bonded particle boards with nails
To install plates it is necessary to use special galvanized nails with a 2.5mm diameter. The size of a nail is chosen using the following rule: the length of a fastened part needs to be no less than a double thickness size of a sheet of cement bonded particle boards and no less than 10 diameters of a nail (see the table below).

The minimal size of nails and screws according to cement bonded particle boards thickness


To ensure technologically correct installation of cement bonded particle boards it is necessary to observe spacing between fastening elements, distance between them and plate borders.






Installation of cement bonded particle boards with screws
It is recommended to drill holes for screws with indentations for their heads, which need to be 1.2 times bigger in diameter than diameter of a screw.

To install plates without preliminary drilling it is necessary to use special cutting screws with strengthened points and hidden heads that have blades for making indentation according to their size.

To fasten plates to a frame it possible to use screws that are intended for plasterboard plates. The size of a screw is chosen using the following rule: the length of a fastened part needs to be no less than a double thickness size of a sheet of cement bonded particle boards and no less than 10 diameters of a screw (see 5.1). Distance between screws is chosen according to table 5.1.For professional fastening it is recommended to use screwdrivers with pneumatic drive or electric drive.

Posted By Wayne Zhang on 26 Feb 2010 03:49 PM
There is a pricedure similar to auto clave called thermal stabalization after the board are cured for 10-15 days like most other concrete products. You don't need SS fasteners.

Cement bonded particle boards (CBPB) can be fastened to bearing structures with screws and special nails. All kinds of connecting elements should have antirust surface.
Attention! Before installing cement bonded particle boards it is necessary to check verticality and horizontality of frame elements. Frame elements need to be lie in the same plane.



Installation of cement bonded particle boards with nails
To install plates it is necessary to use special galvanized nails with a 2.5mm diameter. The size of a nail is chosen using the following rule: the length of a fastened part needs to be no less than a double thickness size of a sheet of cement bonded particle boards and no less than 10 diameters of a nail (see the table below).

The minimal size of nails and screws according to cement bonded particle boards thickness


To ensure technologically correct installation of cement bonded particle boards it is necessary to observe spacing between fastening elements, distance between them and plate borders.






Installation of cement bonded particle boards with screws
It is recommended to drill holes for screws with indentations for their heads, which need to be 1.2 times bigger in diameter than diameter of a screw.

To install plates without preliminary drilling it is necessary to use special cutting screws with strengthened points and hidden heads that have blades for making indentation according to their size.

To fasten plates to a frame it possible to use screws that are intended for plasterboard plates. The size of a screw is chosen using the following rule: the length of a fastened part needs to be no less than a double thickness size of a sheet of cement bonded particle boards and no less than 10 diameters of a screw (see 5.1). Distance between screws is chosen according to table 5.1.For professional fastening it is recommended to use screwdrivers with pneumatic drive or electric drive.

Wayne,

On your product what it will be the best one coat texture coating that it can be used and at what price? I know that in some products it is not necesary any mesh or special preparations just a primer and a acrylic stucco type product.

Yes. you just need a primmer and finished with compatible paint or stucco.

Standard Specification For
Installation of ARMOROCTM
For Floors
Updated 18/01/2010
SECTION 06160 09050

1. GENERAL

1.01 SUMMARY OF WORK

A. Materials shall be ARMOROCTM Cement Bonded Particle Board (CBPB), UL classified and labeled as class A non-flammable and distributed by Ectek International Inc. or its approved distributor.
B. All ARMOROCTM CBPB shall be selected from the manufacturer’s load tables to carry the project live load design over a maximum of 24 inches on center support spacing while limiting deflection to a maximum of L/240 as determined by project architect & engineer.
C. ARMOROCTM CBPB to be of minimum thickness ¾” (18mm) and 4’ x 8’ (1220mm x 2440mm) dimension. Product will be factory sealed with a clear sealer and be fabricated with tongue & groove edges on long 8’ dimensions of the panel.
D. Comply with applicable building codes for wind, seismic, uniformly distributed live-loads and other loading requirements as determined by the project architect and engineer.
E. ARMOROCTM CBPB shall have the following minimum mechanical properties:
1. Density: ±75 lbs/ft3
2. Modulus of Elasticity: > 652,000 psi
3. Shear Strength: > 507 psi
4. Tensile Strength (parallel to surface): > 580 psi
5. Compressive Strength: > 2,175 psi

1.02 RELATED WORK SPECIFIED ELSEWHERE

A. Section 05200, Metal Joists
B. Section 05400, Cold-Formed Metal Framing
C. Section 06100, Rough Carpentry
D. Section 09100, Metal Support Assemblies
E. Section 09300, Tile
F. Section 09600, Flooring

1.03 DESCRIPTION OF ARMOROCTM

A. ARMOROCTM CBPB is a ULTM classified and labeled highly fire-resistant cement bonded particle board (CBPB) mechanically fastened to the top of floor framing members as a sub-floor.
B. ARMOROCTM CBPB is load-bearing and shall have a finished floor applied over it.

1.04 PERFORMANCE REQUIREMENTS

A. Surface burning characteristics: ARMOROCTM CBPB shall 0 flame spread and 5 smoke development (or less) indices in accordance with ASTM E-84/UL723.

1.05 SUBMITTALS

A. Submit to the project architect or design professional a copy of ARMOROCTM CBPB product and installation specifications and one product sample measuring 3” x 3” minimum.

1.06 QUALITY ASSURANCE

A. Contractor shall have successfully installed floor-sheathing products of a similar type as this project. These past projects shall have resulted in construction with a record of successful in-service performance.

1.07 DELIVERY, STORAGE, AND HANDLING

A. ARMOROCTM CBPB as distributed by Ectek International Inc. ARMOROC is normally delivered to site in factory crates bound with plastic sheet protection, wooden edge protection, and wooden dunnage to facilitate forklift handling.
B. ARMOROCTM CBPB shall be stored indoors on leveled dunnage not exceeding 32” on centers. If temporarily stored outdoors boards must be elevated above ground and protected from the weather with waterproof covering. Stacking of pallets should always be on solid stable base and never be stacked higher than 5 pallets high. Acclimatize ARMOROCTM CBPB by storing on site not less than three days prior to installation
C. All materials supplied by others shall be delivered and stored according to their instructions.
D. Deliver, store & handle materials to prevent breakage, warping or damage caused by moisture.
1. When transporting loose ARMOROCTM CBPB panels by truck they must be laid flat and fully protected against edge damage and protected from weather with waterproof covering.
2. When hand carrying single ARMOROCTM CBPB panels they must be carried on edge with the short side held vertically.
E. Damaged or deteriorated materials shall be removed from the premises.
F. Material Safety Data Sheets shall be available for all materials.

1.08 PROJECT CONDITIONS

A. Steel framing to receive ARMOROCTM CBPB shall be structurally sound, free from bows, twists or other malformations and in general compliance with local building code requirements. Damaged framing shall be replaced before installation of ARMOROCTM CBPB.
B. During installation of ARMOROCTM CBPB the temperature shall be at least 0º F during installation if mechanically fastened. If adhesive is being used temperature shall be at least 40º F and remain at this temperature or higher for at least 24 hours after installation, unless the adhesive manufacturer will permit the use of its product at a lower temperature. Prior to the application of finished flooring ARMOROCTM CBPB must be conditioned at the same temperature as required for the finished flooring for at least 48 hours. Finished flooring shall not be applied over ARMOROCTM CBPB that is wet, frozen or contains frost.

1.09 SEQUENCE AND SCHEDULING

A. Sequence the installation of ARMOROCTM CBPB with related work specified in other sections to ensure that the floor assemblies are protected against damage or abuse during and after construction.
B. Provide sufficient labor and equipment to properly install all materials.

1.010 PRODUCT WARRANTY

A. ARMOROCTM CBPB is warranted by the manufacturer for a period of 10-years from date of material purchase to be free from defects in workmanship and materials under normal use. Refer to product warranty for complete terms.

2. PRODUCTS

2.01 MATERIALS

A. Floor Framing: Cold formed steel with minimum G-60 galvanized coating, minimum 18 gauge meeting AISI and ASTM specifications and requirements for use in a structural floor system. Follow manufacturer’s installation instructions.
B. Floor Sheathing: Minimum 18mm (3/4") thick ARMOROCTM CBPB, factory sealed, tongue & groove on 8’ edges as distributed by Ectek International Inc. unless otherwise noted.
C. Adhesives: Use PEMCO 5100 non-flammable, solvent free, zero V.O.C., polyurethane adhesive as manufactured by Alpha Systems, Inc., Elkhart, IN or equal. Available for purchase through Ectek International Inc.. Follow manufacturer’s installation instructions.
D. Fasteners: Use corrosion resistant self-countersinking head screws such as Grabber Part No. HS8200JBWG2, or equal. Fasteners to be minimum #8 diameter with S-12 self-drilling ‘TEK’ points. Length of fastener to equal 2-1/2 to 3 times the board thickness. Available for purchase through Ectek International Inc.. Follow manufacturer’s installation instructions.
E. Sealer: Use alkaline-resistant masonry sealers compatible with PH 11 or greater such as Sherwin Williams Loxon XP, or equal, to re-seal areas of ARMOROCTM CBPB where the factory applied sealer has been damaged.

3. EXECUTION

3.01 FRAMING
A. The floor joists and other floor framing components must be designed to meet the strength and deflection criteria as determined by project architect & engineer and specified in the contract documents.
B. The attachment flange or bearing edge shall be a minimum 2” wide, or doubled up at ARMOROCTM CBPB board edges.
C. Metal framing shall be a minimum 18 gauge.
D. Metal framing shall be spaced a maximum of 24” on centers.
E. All blocking or bridging must be installed prior to the installation of ARMOROCTM CBPB.
F. Framing must be of good quality, free of bows, twists or other malformations.

3.02 STRUCTURAL PANEL SHEATHING APPLICATION

A. Panels shall be cut to size with a circular saw equipped with cement cutting blade and a dry dust collection device or a water-dispensing device that limits the amount of airborne dust. Wear safety glasses and a NIOSH approved dust mask when cutting the panel. Collected dust shall be disposed in a safe manner and in compliance with local, state and federal ordinances.
B. ARMOROCTM CBPB shall be installed with the long edges perpendicular to the framing. Panels may be installed with either surface against the framing.
C. Plan the layout so first and last panel rows are a minimum 24” wide. Start the first panel with the cut edge or tongue along the rim joist. Place each panel across three or more supports. Cut panel to length as needed to ensure butt ends are centered on the framing member.
D. Use of adhesive at all board joints is recommended to enhance the connection strength of adjacent ARMOROCTM CBPB panels. Follow adhesive manufacturer’s product and installation instructions. Carefully apply a ¼-3/8" diameter bead of adhesive to the joint of the installed panel. Only apply enough adhesive to bond the edges of the panels being joined.
E. Fasten each panel to metal framing after it has been placed using the following fastening schedule:
1. Fastener placement shall be a maximum of 12” on center along all supports at panel joints and edges.
2. Fastener placement shall be a maximum of 16” on center along all supports in the field of the panel.
3. Fastener placement shall be a minimum ¾” from all panel edges.
4. Fastener placement shall be a minimum 2” from all panel corners. Off-set fasteners to avoid 45 degree fastener placement at board corners.
5. Begin fastening at one end and fan out across the panel. Do not fasten all the corners first.
6. Drive fasteners so the heads are flush with the surface of the board.
F. After installing one complete row of panels begin the next row. Slide panels together so that the tongue of the panel being installed fits into the groove of the installed panel. Install all rows in a running bond pattern so that end joints fall over the center of the framing members and are staggered by at least two supports from where the end joints fall in the adjacent rows.
G. Cutouts in the panels should be made before installing the panel whenever possible. If a cutout is required after the panel is installed, set the depth of the saw blade to ensure that the framing is not scored. Continuous structural perimeter support such as blocking, bracing and bridging is required at all cutouts and/or penetrations larger than 4"in either direction.
H. Panels are factory sealed for protection from moisture. During installation apply alkaline resistant masonry sealer (compatible with a PH 11 or greater) to all areas where the factory applied sealer has been damaged. Examples include, but not limited to, sanded areas of ARMOROCTM CBPB for floor-leveling purposes, exposed unglued cut edges, and damage during construction.

3.03 CLEAN-UP

A. Left over material shall be removed from the job site.
B. Remove foreign material from floor surface and vacuum all dust from the surface.

3.04 SAFETY

A. Avoid concentrated point loads on ARMOROCTM CBPB by referring to concentrated load tables and as determined by project architect & engineer. Pay close attention to stored building materials and/or equipment such as masonry units, hoists, framing members, sheet goods, ladders, scaffolding, etc.
B. Measures shall be taken to distribute concentrated and point loads on the deck system during construction such as the utilization of pallets, dunnage, and/or structural building panels such as plywood or OSB laid over multiple spans.
C. Workers must take extra care to avoid impacts such as dropped masonry units, framing members, scrap material, tools, equipment, etc. Such impacts can cause deforming marks or even penetrations if dropped onto the sheathing surface of these panels and will need repair.

3.05 FLOOR FINISH

A. Before the application of floor finish materials, ensure that all panels are properly installed with the fastener head driven flush or slightly below the surface of the panels. Fill all voids and depressions with compatible patching or leveling compounds.
B. Underlayments and accessories may be secured to ARMOROCTM CBPB by following the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer. Mechanical fasteners or adhesive and pneumatically driven, divergent point staples can be used. Staples should penetrate ARMOROCTM CBPB 1/4" – 1/2".
C. For wood flooring apply a building paper No. 15 felt or equivalent over ARMOROCTM CBPB prior to applying the wood flooring. For engineered wood flooring use the moisture barrier recommended for the engineered wood flooring system specified in lieu of the building paper. Follow the wood flooring manufacturer’s installation instructions for applying wood flooring to plywood or OSB floor sheathing. ARMOROCTM CBPB must be kept dry and maintained in a conditioned space for a minimum of 30 days prior to the installation of wood flooring.
D. Ceramic title should be installed over a crack isolation or cleavage membrane applied to ARMOROCTM CBPB. Use latex modified thin set mortar that complies with ANSI Standards for application of the tile to the membrane unless the tile or membrane manufacture directs the use of an alternate material that complies with ANSI Standards.
E. Carpet should be installed using tackless strips designed for concrete application for the installation of stretched carpet.


Ectek International Inc.
49 Mossgrove Trail, Toronto, Ontario M2L 2W2 Canada
www.cbpb.org T: 416 564 4617 F: 416 498 0432 email: info@cbpb.org

WZ, I'm sorry, but this is getting to be ridiculous!

This is THE SIP FORUM, right? No one has ever posted that much information about any SIP brand on this forum in the past. We could bog this entire website down with 100's of pages of sales literature, code reports, technical details, etc. but we don't, we typically just stick to brief comments or link references. Can you even refer to a source that offers SIPs (that's STRUCTURAL INSULATED PANELS) that utilize "armorac" as a panel skin? If you can, and It's widely available on the marketplace today, and if it's accepted by most building departments, in the U.S. then I'll step back a bit, but not on the issue of posting a "book" as you just did.

In the meantime for you new visitors who're researching your options in connection with a building project, there is plenty of good, solid information, in many other threads on the various Green Building Talk Forums. As always, if you can't find the answers that you're looking for, start your own thread, and, I can assure you that you'll get plenty of attention.

Posted By The Sipper on 26 Feb 2010 06:13 PM
WZ, I'm sorry, but this is getting to be ridiculous!

This is THE SIP FORUM, right? No one has ever posted that much information about any SIP brand on this forum in the past. We could bog this entire website down with 100's of pages of sales literature, code reports, technical details, etc. but we don't, we typically just stick to brief comments or link references. Can you even refer to a source that offers SIPs (that's STRUCTURAL INSULATED PANELS) that utilize "armorac" as a panel skin? If you can, and It's widely available on the marketplace today, and if it's accepted by most building departments, in the U.S. then I'll step back a bit, but not on the issue of posting a "book" as you just did.

In the meantime for you new visitors who're researching your options in connection with a building project, there is plenty of good, solid information, in many other threads on the various Green Building Talk Forums. As always, if you can't find the answers that you're looking for, start your own thread, and, I can assure you that you'll get plenty of attention.

Sipper,

Wayne did a god job, this way he is showing that the product it is superior to OSB. If you know all this just let other to see what the product it is like. There are so many people opposed to new products more efficient before they even know what they are. I have a sample in my hand and I can tell you that it does not compare with anything on the market. The reason why nobody is using it is because of people like you and because garbage it is easy sold to people in this country. Good job Wayne!

No intention to make anybody upset.

Here are the links with CBPB skin.

http://www.pfsolutions.ie/precast-concrete-wall-systems.aspx

For 24mm, almost 1" skin.

http://www.murus.com/homeowners/t.spec.CB2100.html

For 10mm skin.

Hey, Liviu, again you still don't really get it, but thanks for repeating my last post on this page, I want as many people as possible to read it. BTW, I thought that you were an MGO Board guy, all the way, what happened? Or, is it just a matter of trying to find something that will beat out OSB as the most viable product for SIP "skins" that is on the market today. "Viable" doesn't necessarily mean "The Best" as a stand alone material for all applications. It's the combination of availability, (there is probably an OSB SIP manufacturing facility within a few hundred miles of virtually any point in the US), adaptability ( No complicated or expensive special tools required to work with OSB SIPs) flexibility (Sizes from 4' x 8' to 8' x 24') (Can be used for walls, roofs, and floors, can be finished on interior and exterior as desired) affordability (self explanatory), Sustainability (everybody should understand this by now)

And, before some wise guy jumps in and adds "flammability", I'll just mention the fact that there are code approved fire rated assembles for use with OSB SIPs that satisfy this issue. I'll clarify that last statement by saying that I'm not aware of any building jurisdictions that unequivocally reject the use of OSB SIPs with a code approved fire rated assembly. I'm well aware that this issue alone will likely "fire" up the proponents of MGO Board, CBPB, Fiber Cement Board, etc (By the way, we use a lot of fiber cement board as siding on our OSB SIP homes here in California, so I'm not knocking that product at all, people love it, and it works great if you know how to handle it)

WZ, to start with, as I've said before, don't worry about "making anybody upset" At least, if you were referring to me, I don't get "upset" not about stuff like this, I think that "exasperated" might be a better term (Hey, I'm a geezer, and my great grandmother, who was raised during civil war times, used to use that word), or maybe even "frustrated". Anyway, not a problem.

Now, back to business, on the first link that you posted I found factories that appear to manufacture CBPB in The Czech republic and in Slovakia, and there was mention of Austria, and Ireland. However, I couldn't find anything that gave me an indication that they were using these panels in connection with SIPs. Let me know if you can direct me to that info just to help me stay informed.

So it looks like Murus is pressing 4 1/2" thick and 5 1/2" thick , 4' x 8' and 4' x 10' SIPS with the CBPB skins. Good for them, I hope that they do well with them. Now , besides the obvious size limitations, they do weigh nearly 60% more than an EPS/ OSB SIP (4 1/2" panel is 5.75 lbs psf vs 3.35 lbs psf ) Not a big deal but may require an extra guy to handle the panels. Murus uses polyurethane foam vs the more widely used EPS, higher R-Value but other pros and cons, depending upon what side of the fence that you're on, I suppose. That issue could be the topic of another thread, actually I think that it has been in the past.
These panels will require more careful handling throughout the loading, delivery, unloading, and installation processes, if you want to cash in on the supposed benefit of the "ready to tape, mud, and paint" interior skin (eliminating the need for drywall, right?) What about the exterior surfaces of the walls? Can you just paint those, or do you have to treat those just as you would an OSB SIP? I'll readily admit that I'm not up to speed on all of this stuff. So, having confessed that fact, another question is CBPB board more impact resistant than MGO Board or Fiber Cement? I can tell you right now that OSB is, and I can dig up the links to the tests that prove that fact, but you may be able to do the same with your CBPB board.

That's all I that I had on these issues, for now, anyway. (However I have a feeling that I won't get the last word in here, at least not yet.)

OSB definitely has its advantages over cementitious board in size and impact resistant for SIP skins. But it limited in type III and Type IV constructions.

For type I and type II structures, you need non-combustible assemblies. Insulation foams are allowed as soon as the assembly pass the fire rated test.

As far as the manufacturing process is concerned, fiber cement board is more flexible and has a good chance to make 8x24 if the market is good enough.

CBPB has advantages in thick panels for fire rated structural applications.

Posted By The Sipper on 26 Feb 2010 10:53 PM
Hey, Liviu, again you still don't really get it, but thanks for repeating my last post on this page, I want as many people as possible to read it. BTW, I thought that you were an MGO Board guy, all the way, what happened? Or, is it just a matter of trying to find something that will beat out OSB as the most viable product for SIP "skins" that is on the market today. "Viable" doesn't necessarily mean "The Best" as a stand alone material for all applications. It's the combination of availability, (there is probably an OSB SIP manufacturing facility within a few hundred miles of virtually any point in the US), adaptability ( No complicated or expensive special tools required to work with OSB SIPs) flexibility (Sizes from 4' x 8' to 8' x 24') (Can be used for walls, roofs, and floors, can be finished on interior and exterior as desired) affordability (self explanatory), Sustainability (everybody should understand this by now)

And, before some wise guy jumps in and adds "flammability", I'll just mention the fact that there are code approved fire rated assembles for use with OSB SIPs that satisfy this issue. I'll clarify that last statement by saying that I'm not aware of any building jurisdictions that unequivocally reject the use of OSB SIPs with a code approved fire rated assembly. I'm well aware that this issue alone will likely "fire" up the proponents of MGO Board, CBPB, Fiber Cement Board, etc (By the way, we use a lot of fiber cement board as siding on our OSB SIP homes here in California, so I'm not knocking that product at all, people love it, and it works great if you know how to handle it)

WZ, to start with, as I've said before, don't worry about "making anybody upset" At least, if you were referring to me, I don't get "upset" not about stuff like this, I think that "exasperated" might be a better term (Hey, I'm a geezer, and my great grandmother, who was raised during civil war times, used to use that word), or maybe even "frustrated". Anyway, not a problem.

Now, back to business, on the first link that you posted I found factories that appear to manufacture CBPB in The Czech republic and in Slovakia, and there was mention of Austria, and Ireland. However, I couldn't find anything that gave me an indication that they were using these panels in connection with SIPs. Let me know if you can direct me to that info just to help me stay informed.

So it looks like Murus is pressing 4 1/2" thick and 5 1/2" thick , 4' x 8' and 4' x 10' SIPS with the CBPB skins. Good for them, I hope that they do well with them. Now , besides the obvious size limitations, they do weigh nearly 60% more than an EPS/ OSB SIP (4 1/2" panel is 5.75 lbs psf vs 3.35 lbs psf ) Not a big deal but may require an extra guy to handle the panels. Murus uses polyurethane foam vs the more widely used EPS, higher R-Value but other pros and cons, depending upon what side of the fence that you're on, I suppose. That issue could be the topic of another thread, actually I think that it has been in the past.
These panels will require more careful handling throughout the loading, delivery, unloading, and installation processes, if you want to cash in on the supposed benefit of the "ready to tape, mud, and paint" interior skin (eliminating the need for drywall, right?) What about the exterior surfaces of the walls? Can you just paint those, or do you have to treat those just as you would an OSB SIP? I'll readily admit that I'm not up to speed on all of this stuff. So, having confessed that fact, another question is CBPB board more impact resistant than MGO Board or Fiber Cement? I can tell you right now that OSB is, and I can dig up the links to the tests that prove that fact, but you may be able to do the same with your CBPB board.

That's all I that I had on these issues, for now, anyway. (However I have a feeling that I won't get the last word in here, at least not yet.)

Here it is for you Sipper, but  it may be to new of a technology, it is green too and it does not need any special prep.

http://www.texcote.com

and here is a formula special formulated for MGO

http://www.energexwallsystems.com/pdf/dragoncoat.pdf

Posted By Wayne Zhang on 26 Feb 2010 11:57 PM


For type I and type II structures, you need non-combustible assemblies. Insulation foams are allowed as soon as the assembly pass the fire rated test.

Wayne ;

just so we are clear , you are not claiming that there is a cement board SIP that is classified as NC are you?

Posted By Liviu on 26 Feb 2010 11:13 AM

Chris,


here is the beef

http://www.architecturalproducts.co...specs.html

Liviu;

Thanks for the informative link, please direct me to the accelerated aging test report that shows no corrosion issues for the board in contact with steel joists?

The metal skin sips are used for type II construction in FL. why couldn't a non combusitble cement board skin?

Posted By Wayne Zhang on 27 Feb 2010 09:34 AM
The metal skin sips are used for type II construction in FL. why couldn't a non combusitble cement board skin?

Wayne;

that is a true statement for some metals skins, but not all, in the same token you cannot make a blanket statement that fibercement panels are non- combustable, the skin may be non-combustable but the whole assembly has to be tested and passed (for each manufacturer) to be an approved assembly for type II

So, Liviu, are you saying that those 2 products can be used as finishes directly on the exterior surfaces of MGO Board SIPs? If so I'm sure that all of the people who are planning to build their homes with that wall system, and who're reading this thread, will appreciate that information. BTW, I thought that your current emphasis was on fiber cement skin SIPs, at least that was your topic when you instigated this thread.

Wayne Z, you're correct that OSB SIPs do have limitations in connection with their use in type III and type IV construction. But, there are certain applications where they can be used in concert with non combustible structural systems and job specific code approved fire rated assemblies.

Having said that I think maybe you've lost sight of the fact that the great majority of the "discussions" on the GBT Forums evolve around type V (5) residential construction projects, and that's where many of the benefits and advantages of OSB SIPs come in (As I outlined in my previous post) This is not to say that we're not interested in commercial, industrial, and institutional, projects because many such projects have utilized OSB SIPS as an integral component of their building envelopes. (one can see photos of a number of these projects at www.achfoam.com and www.r-control.com) Perhaps that is an area where you can gain market share, once you overcome your current "limitations". However, you may correct me if I'm wrong, I will hazard a guess that the focus of your industry is not on SIPs, but on the commercial cladding industry, as a whole.

Now, If you think that 8' x 24' MGO, Fiber Cement, CBPB (or whatever?) panels are a "VIABLE" alternative for the US SIP industry to use in place of OSB, you should go for it! Spend those $$ to test, tool up, and market (Maybe Liviu will fund this effort......... I better be careful here, maybe he can, and will)

BYW, FYI, There is a "Green Building- Commercial" forum on this website.

So, is there anybody out there who really wants to talk about building a home with SIPs? (Whatever kind of skin or foam that you're interested in)