Hi: I am looking for manufacturers of Structural Concrete Insulated Panels in the US. Can anyone point me to few? Many thanks, Bob-O

Hello Bob

Most SIP manufactures only use panel skins made from OSB.  I previously worked for a SIP manufacture that built only Cement Board (CB) SIP's.  The manufacturing process is remarkable different for the two panels, I must admit I was supprised.  Manufactures who make OSB panels can not simply substitue CB for OSB and continue to produce a quality panel.

I am presently working with a manufacture in St. Martineville, LA that makes both OSB and CB panels.  If you would like to contact me off line I will be happy to help you.

Best of Luck,


Matt B. Phelps, P.E.
mphelps@apec-llc.com
512/670-9400 (o)
512/748-8199 (m)

Hi Mat: Thanks for the info, but what I am really looking for are mfgs. that produce a sip sandwiched between a wire frame, and once the walls are in place both sides are spayed with a 1" to 2" of shotcrete. Bob

Bob-O,

I have used a system called In Steel. I believe it is now called: http://www.tridipanel.com/about/about.htm

The wire frame was 3/4" away from the foam. After shotcreting the walls, we stuccoed them.

Feel free to e-mail for more info about using it: Alton (at) Auburn (dot) Edu Of course, use the at symbol and period. I write my e-mail address this way trying to avoid the bots that scan the forums for addresses.

This is like Speedwall, right? My question about this type of system is how much thermal energy gets passed through the foam via those steel strut wires? It may not be significant, but I haven't seen any specs on it.

Dick Mills

Dick,

Excellent question. I have thought about it every since I used In Steel several years ago. I still do not have a definite answer.

I would think that a Magnesium Oxychloride cement on the inside of a Speedwall system might be a good way to mitigate the thermal conductivity of the strut wires, since the Sorel cements have much lower thermal conductivity than Portland cement. Sorel cements are also much stronger than Portland cement. I would be a bit more leary of using a Sorel cement on the exterior due to it's poor resistance to moisture related degredation.

Dick Mills

greensandwich
solarcrete
m-2
tridipanel
metrockscip

I am concerned about getting a flat smooth wall with these systems. The last company mentioned built in a screed rail to give a flat wall finish.
A big holdback for me is no local experienced crews. Although these new systems seem very promising, I'm leary of being a guinea pig on a new system.

Slenzen, 

Thanks for posting that list of interesting web sites. 

IIRC, Habitat for Humanity built homes using that technique in Florida, and they were the only ones in the area that survived I forget which of the storms a decade ago.  But I thought that they used an expanded metal screen rather than the somewhat wide spacing on the steel in these pages. 

The 2" wire screen looks reasonable, but what of the one that just used rebar every few feet -- would that be sufficiently strong and would that wide of a spacing prevent cracks through which termites could enter?

Do you know of any data on the thermal bridging across the steel crossties?

Very respectfully,
Larry

All the mfgs. I have contacted using scips and sips with rebar all swear that there is no heat or cold bridging. However I would sure like to find out for sure from a disinterested third party before I proceed. Bob

Bob-O,

Here I go again proving that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. . .

Did any of them explain why there isn't?  My impression was that concrete would not act as an insulator -- what else would prevent the bridging?

Very respectfully,
Larry

Have any of you used both SIPs and the shotcrete onto foam core wall techniques such that you could compare them?

Very respectfully,
Larry

The installer/builder I talked with about it also said the bridging from the wire truss was "insignificant." I do, however, have other concerns. The biggest one is that one illustration I saw showed that everywhere a truss meets the exterior wall, a solid-concrete joint was needed....that is, they strip the EPS out and fill the whole thing with concrete to stabilize the joint. This would open up a huge thermal bridge.

Other concerns include:

On a curved wall (we have many), the EPS would bend to create gaps on the exterior, leaving gaps of insulation.

I've seen too-widely-ranging estimates of R-value--even without taking into account the thermal mass moderation.

Another concern is providing a way for moisture that gets into the wall to migrate out. One installer suggested some sort of "weep holes", but I'm not liking the notion of how that would affect thermal performance. I've about decided that a "drain plane" with a secondary exterior wall finish would be necessary.

And the nature of cement to form cracks is of some concern, too. Usually, expansion joints are used in a cement pour--a wall like this would have no expansion joints....not to mention micro-cracking that will undoubtedly occur.

And lastly, I'm concerned about running utilities inside the wall, making them inaccessible later. I know this is a problem with SIPs, too. 

We've designed our house to be pretty dependent on using Green Sandwich SCIPs (now out of business) for construction, so I'm still working on resolving these concerns.

Here are some suppliers/builders I found:

http://tridipanel.org (CA)
http://www.structurtech.com (NC)
http://www.cswall.com/index.htm (CO)
http://www.envirolaststructures.com (SC)

------as far as I know, all of the above companies build with the same panel--the ones below use a different type, I believe------------

http://www.compositebuildingsystems.com (CO) (Builds with MetRock below)
http://www.metrockscip.com (CO) (Green Sandwich builder formed this new company)
http://www.culverwaycohousing.com/ (MO - it's not on their website, but this guy was certified by Green Sandwich before they went under)

hi! i'm from asia. i recently had my house built using scip (i wish i read these forums first). i think our house is the first house made of scip in my country, philippines. the american who made the panel said that he used to be connected with green sandwich technologies. i've been searching for this company but i cant find their website anymore. do you know what happened to greensandwich tech?

Hi,

Try PROTEC Concrete Structural Insulated Panel System
They panel is lightweight, fast assembly. The foam is bonded, front and back to a concrete backboard.
Assembly w/steel channels and galv. nails. I think a 4" sandwich provided R-20 , but I'm not sure.


Joe
energyefficienthouse

Just added a post to my blog on this company in oregon using a EPS Foam system to build a 40,000 home project, I say why can't we do this more often

PROTEC's system nothing like that.

P.s. you have a great blog w/excellent information! Thanks.

Joe
energyefficienthouse

PROTEC and similar systems are listed on the blog,thanks, Joe energyefficienthouse