Posted By tlhfirelion on 12/31/2009 10:24 AM
It's just my view on this topic (you will get others I'm sure) but the reasons that some of this stuff doesn't catch on or make sense has many possibilities. I narrowed it down to what I feel are the reasons lots of this stuff doesn't take off.

1) Comfort zone - Builders mostly and homeowners have always done things a certain way and they fear change. Why take the time and effort to learn a new way of doing it better if you can build "X" house in your sleep? It takes EXTRA effort and Americans by in large lost our drive a long time ago. It's a small group of people that keep that stuff going and until the homeowners demand it, things never change or do but at a snails pace. It's amazing to me how many people when they learn of my icf house, start to look for the faults. Where's the catch? They nit pick it to death but never are willing to compare it to stick built. :) I've realized it's because they live in an inferior home and they don't like to be made inferior, so they try and degrade it. If they insist on talking more I can usually show them my electric bill and that pretty much shuts them up. My bill last month (november) was $38.00 TOTAL.

2) The priorities of the homeowner are "bass akwards" as grandpa used to say. People would rather spend 2, 3 or even 5% more on imported bath fixtures and fancy italian granite countertops as opposed to build sip, icf, use spray foam, drain heat recovery, etc. Spending a few thousand dollars more on a highly energy efficient home is looked at as wasteful but hammered copper bath fixtures are a must have! Our society cares more about looks that performance, substance and especially over longevity. That is displayed in our home construction, our "big 3" car construction, hollywood, Government, and even how we treat others.

3) My third reason is a bit opposing to my other reasons but here it is anyways. I think people have a somewhat valid reason for being somewhat leary of "green" stuff because a lot of it is a scam. There are so many "green" products on the market that are 3 times the cost for no valid reason, that aren't really green at all, or deliver pie in the sky promises and don't even come close to delivering. It takes a LOT of reading and reserach on your own to know what is legit, what will work, if you can afford it, etc and most people are not willing to put that kind of effort into their home. They just want it to look good and be done for them and then they want to be burped afterwards. :)

But there are people (like most everyone on this board) that does care wether is sales motivated, fiscally motivated, etc and thus we have GBT.com You are here to learn and you are investigating and I would bet you will have a great home that not only looks good, but outperforms most if not all of your nieghbors. Keep doing what you are doing Jerk (y) lol J/K

Posted By tlhfirelion on 12/31/2009 11:17 AM
I forgot to comment on your viking range statement. lol I get a kick out of how many people will spend 6 grand or even more on a stove that they hardly ever use or at least use to half it's designed capactiy. Watching Emeril live doesn't make me a chef and a viking range doesn't make them one either. lol You are right though thats not as impressive. They can have their viking stove, I'll use the savings for something else. Too each his own I guess.

Oh and you are a real American too jerky. (unless you are canadian; then you are just weird.) :P

Posted By egouin on 01/06/2010 5:13 PM
Gentlemen,

I have to agree with you. My experience was eerily similar... up to and including some well educated individuals trying to talk me out of energy efficient technologies in front of my (at the time) on the fence wife. Well, the proof is in the pudding! The house is complete. While I can't claim a $38 electric bill, I can claim a $250 one. That $250 does all the usual stuff (cooking, clothes dryer, dishwasher) for a family of 5 people and 5 dogs. Oh, and it also heated that 3,800 sqft home for the month of December in an area with 6990 HDD.

My neighbor built his house at the same time using 2x6" stick and batt. His house is about the same size. He gave me tons of cr@p about everything I was doing. I mean everything. He and his wife were actually jerks about it at times. I did have to laugh a bit when they filled up their - two - oil tanks for the first time. Heating oil was at $4 per gallon then. $2200 for oil to burn. No matter what, I could not get him to spend that same amount on upgraded insulation. I wonder how much extra he paid for the Australian Cyprus floors? Hmm...

Guess what...? We got our electric bills on the same day in December. Mine was $250 his was $245. Oh yeah, and then there was his $700 oil bill that he received the day before. Did I mention he paid a neighborhood kid $50 to stack some of the 3 cords of wood on his deck so he didn't have to walk in the snow. The wood already cost him $250 a cord and he burns 3 per year.

I will be walking over there to compare energy bills every month for years to come. You can count on that. By the way, did I mention that my neighbors happen to be my in-laws! I try to help them in any way I can, but I am just a snot nosed 38 year old kid to them. So be it, Dad. See you next month. Have your energy bills ready. :)

BTW - On drainwater heat recovery... the heat transfer only happens when the water is running. A shower uses hot water at the same time it is going down the drain. Clothes and dish washers to not operate both at the same time. Same thing with taking a bath - the heat does not go down the drain until the bath is over. At that time you no longer need it. I am sure you could come up with a way to circulate the water separately, but it would get complicated real fast.

Regards,
Ed

Posted By Dana1 on 01/08/2010 12:52 PM
On the drainwater heat recovery end, showers account for ~40% of the typical US household's water use, but for people who use water-sipping appliances showers are well over 50%. And since showers represent both a major bulk draw and a peak dynamic load, drainwater heat recovery can pay for itself up front with downsized water heating systems. This is most significant with solar hot water, but it often decreases the storage volume requirements for other tank systems, and the burner requirements for indirects & tankless heaters by feeding heat back into the system at a 25-35KBTU/hour rate.
<>
Dana, This system would seem very appropriate for my design where 60-70% of hot water is for showers! My question: Drain recovery unit can not stack directly under shower, can it be offset with short (6') horizontal run between shower drain and vertical drain recovery unit? Thnaks