I know, I know, I just mentioned the v-word in a green building forum but we've gotten ourselves into a bit of a bind. To make a long story short, we may HAVE to get vinyl windows. Let's say we get stuck with them: Is there something we can do to seal the vinyl so it doesn't off-gas into the house? Is whatever we'd use to do that sealing worse than the original vinyl? :) Any suggestions would be great. Thanks, Colin.

Very old topic, but I just joined and thought I'd add my $.02 worth. The only way to seal the vinyl windows is to use a 3M or similar window insulating kit, which uses a shrink-wrap method. Otherwise, there is no safe coating that will adhere to vinyl. Some folks have used AFM Safe Seal with moderate success, but I can't wholeheartedly recommend it myself.

Colin;

where did you find information about vinyl windows off gassing? I have not heard that

Hi Chris,

Gosh, it's been a while so I can't say what specifically we were reading at the time. But I think it's generally accepted (though correct me if I'm mistaken) that all plastics off-gas to some degree and so one should be a little careful about how much plastic/pvc there is in a home (especially as homes become increasingly air-tight).

A quick googling did turn up this page mentioning vinyl windows, specifically:
http://www.ecoact.org/Programs/Green_Building/green_Materials/pvc.htm

I seem to recall discussing vinyl off-gassing when looking at our siding options as well, so there might be some information in that direction. (In the case of siding it was mentioned as "...and you don't have to worry as much about off gassing since your siding is outside.")

Hope that helps,
Colin.

Colin;

I called Simonton window and of course they said that the frames do not off gas, I think they most likely do during the mfg. process, but my research shows that most of the off gassing occurs within 1 week of mfg.

I have Simonton in my own home,I am not concerned, as they are just a small segment of all the materials in the whole house.

What would one seal the frames with anyway ...... more plastic?   While we need to be careful, I think we can make ourselves nuts over stressing about the window frames all the while our milk, orange juice, peanut butter, catsup, mustard, honey, etc. is stored in plastics

pretty soon it's going to get so bad that everyone is going to have to live in a bubble their whole life. I would not put any kind of plastic shrinkwrap or any other method on any window because as sure as you do your window would fail and the manufacturer would not warranty it due to the after market add on. Most manufacturers warranties already state that they will not warranty any seal failure or breakage if their glass has been coated with a tint or film of any kind. I'm sure the same thing would go for the frame.

I agree, Matthew, but for folks with chem sensitivity, their health is much more important than a warranty. Obviously, the best way to reduce toxins in the house is to eliminate the source of the toxins completely. There are better alternatives to vinyl windows. Many people question whether or not vinyl outgasses. If it doesn't, then how can it release an odor every time the material heats up? For those who are interested, outgassing is not like steam coming off a cup of hot water. Outgassing is the release of unreacted chemical monomers from a cured substrate. It is widely known that traditional latex paint, even the zero-voc stuff, will outgas for 2.5 years to 4.5 years after reaching a full cure. I haven't seen any tests done on plastics, though. I can only surmise that if the odor still persists after years of use, it's still releasing something. Whether that 'something' is toxic or not is up for discussion.

D_O_G;

you will be hard pressed to find a vinyl free window, even wood and aluminum mfgs. use many vinyl parts for jamb slide/guides and glazing beads

when you say heat up, how hot do you expect the interior side of a frame to get ?

Less is better. I like the Loewen windows myself. Once the material hit 85-90 degrees, there is a noticeable smell.

Can't imagine the frame getting that warm in a home summer or winter

Most likely you have much bigger issues than vinyl frames off gassing, how about plywood, mdo, mdf particle board and osb used in the flooring, cabinets, furniture, framing, jamb extensions, doors, door frames, flooring, shelving. Everywhere. Then there are sealants, adhesives, epoxies stains, varnish and paint. Even if they are low voc they are not no voc and are found in much greater quantities.
I'm sure those bubbles in the above photo are off gassing into the mouths of those kids as well.

> Most likely you have much bigger issues than vinyl frames

We have no idea how much of an issue off-gassing is for those without chemical sensitivities but if you ask, you can often find alternatives to standard building products. When the alternatives weren't overly expensive (or added other value at a reasonable cost) we went for them. In the end, everything wood in the house was solid wood (kitchen, stairs, jambs, doors, floors). Plywood subfloor is sequestered under 1.5" of gypcrete.

We know we didn't (and couldn't possibly) get it all but if we can reduce exposure at a reasonable expense, it seemed like a good idea. Combined with an HRV, we think we've probably wound up with pretty good IAQ.

Don't worry too much Fiberglass Windows utlize a great deal of silicone that off-gas as well.