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Riva combi boiler, new build, installer left me high n dry
Last Post 30 Jun 2010 06:47 PM by kevkrete. 9 Replies. |
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kevkrete
New Member
Posts:5
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| 24 Jun 2010 01:51 PM |
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Im in the concrete bussiness and built an 1300sq ICF house basement to rafters, I also have decorative stamped concrete in the basement (on top of 2" hi dens styro) and about 25% upstairs also. I bought this boiler because it does both hot water and infloor heat. My problem is the fellow I hired said he would do it then just bailed on me. ??? Now Im having a hard time finding someone to install for me so Im going to do it myself. So been surfing trying to find some good reading , thank goodness I found this site. :) All lines are ran, boiler is on the wall, intake / exauhst is mounted with proper restrictor for pipe length. I need to find out ALL the plumbing that I need to go on ??? manifolds I have , external pump ? ( the riva has an internal pump) mixing valve , . It probably sounds like Im over my head but this will not be the first time or the last Im sure. I do have a forced air high effiecency furnace so the combi is just for hot water and infloor heat , why ? well just to to make things alittle more comfortable, We live in the middle of Canada . I have 4 zones upstair that are very small , bathrooms, kitchen, and mudroom and front landing. I plan to control them with flow controls and the basement will be the big draw. So Im looking for some knowledge on the set up of mixing valve and external pump . |
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kevkrete
New Member
Posts:5
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| 25 Jun 2010 10:15 AM |
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Was reading the manual last night and it seems the combi has a 3 way mixing valve built in and is not showing a mixing valve in there drawing examples ?? , so my plan as stated above is to flow control the 4 small zones up stairs and control the basement with the theromostat.The manual also shows a flow restrictor to be installed in the fitting to the boiler ? So I need to construct a hydrolic seporator , the external circulater goes before the manifold on the supply or the return ? most drawing show the pump on each zone but I will not have thermostats in these 4 small zones. Basicly I have 1 zone this should be easy, just looking for alittle guidance. thx |
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Dana1
Veteran Member
Posts:1576
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| 25 Jun 2010 06:12 PM |
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Did the guy who bailed on you leave ANY system schematic to work from?
In a 1300sf single-zone you can probably get it to work with a single pump, no hydraulic separator, and probably no mixing valve is you're running it all at domestic water temps. If the tubing is all embedded in concrete that's higher water temp than necessary, but the Biasi Riva isn't condensing, so there's no combustion- efficiency loss with running it at somewhat higher than necessary water temps.
You'd want to use floor thermostat to control it though for both an under-foot comfort and potential setpoint overshoot issue. Since the condensing gas furnace would take over the job of controlling the air temp, just setting floor temp to a cozy 23-25C in mid winter, maybe bumping it down a few for the shoulder seasons
But design-by-web forum on a half-implemented design isn't a recipe for the best result. |
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Blueridgecompany.com
Basic Member
Posts:314
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| 25 Jun 2010 08:53 PM |
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Have a look at there manual, Read it twice.
http://www.qhtinc.com/riva.html
http://www.qhtinc.com/pdf/CombiInstallrevb02-05-08.pdf
You probable can get by as one zone system using the pump in the boiler.
The 5 main pipes under the boiler are from left to right facing the boiler
Heating out (supply)
Domestic H20 hot out
Gas in
Domestic H20 in
Heating in (return)return
Your heating manifold (pipe loops) will attach to the Supply / return units
Here is a link to a schematic of a EURO boiler we use to sell http://www.blueridgecompany.com/documents/Roca_plumbing%20compress.pdf the CH supply and Ch return are where your manifold will attach (supply return).
They say this is a condensing boiler and it has a condensate trap but the burner assembly tell otherwise.
You can set the temp for the in floor low, and the domestic slightly higher if it is anything like the rest of the Euro boilers.
If all else fails call the Canadian supplier for help.
Be warned do not mess with the gas valve in the boiler, let a gas technician do that, they are fragile and precise.
Good luck
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Dan
BlueRidgeCompany.com |
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kevkrete
New Member
Posts:5
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| 28 Jun 2010 01:31 PM |
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Thx for the replies , I will be REreading the manual . I have read it a few times but Im green . I was planning on adding a pump since the 4 small zones are up stairs. The built in 3way mixing valve will be for DHW temp right ? As of right now I was planning on inst ex pump and mixing valve with the 4 small zones flow controled. For me its not about doing it the cheepest way but the way that will work the best for years to come.
Do I need the hydrolic sepporater ? the ext pump goes on the return or outlet ? 3way to make sure I dont over heat the slab. What size of manifold. what size of pump ? 3 way ? |
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Blueridgecompany.com
Basic Member
Posts:314
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| 28 Jun 2010 03:50 PM |
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P. 12 of the directions do show a heat exchanger in the domestic tank, indicating the heat is isolated from the domestic H20.
the pump in the system will probably work fine as primary pump, or you can make primary secondary loop.
I suspect that there is a control knob fro domestic temperature and one for delivered heat and the computer on the boiler controls the delivered temps based on demand source.
You may want to talk with a local supplier/rep .
Dan |
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Dan
BlueRidgeCompany.com |
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Dana1
Veteran Member
Posts:1576
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| 29 Jun 2010 11:43 AM |
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Going primary/secondary with a hydraulic separator on a 1-zone 1300foot house seems a bit silly. Unless it has unusually long loops & skinny PEX the internal pump should be able to handle the head. (But without more info we don't really know, eh?)
And if it's micro-zoned (with separate zone thermostats) with staple-up rather than slab/gypcrete, you'll probably need to use a buffer tank as the hydraulic separator to keep it from short-cycling itself to death on micro-zone calls. |
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kevkrete
New Member
Posts:5
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| 29 Jun 2010 01:56 PM |
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I used 1/2" pex, the longest run in the family room basment is 220 ft of pipe, the rest are shorter . So your saying NO hydraulic separator. ok
in the manual it says "when the boiler is piped in a primary secondary manner,it is necessary to us the central heating flow restrictor supplied with the boiler", so no restrictor.
This becoming more straight forward all the time :)
So no external 3way, no external pump. Straight from boiler to manifolds, the whole basement is on one thermostat and the small 4 zones upstairs will be flow controled off the basement thermostat, basicly one zone. :)
What else do I need. a drain line ? air trap ? were do they go?
The boiler has built in expantion tanks for both DHW and floor loops.
Thx for the help, its nice to talk to people that can help you out vs talking to yourself. or swearing lol |
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Blueridgecompany.com
Basic Member
Posts:314
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| 29 Jun 2010 03:30 PM |
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I still would consider talking to my self and occasional swearing a reasonable need to do regarding this application.....
it is a simple install, just do not touch the gas valve, there is a sensitive spring, should be factory set close to start and if you or your helper does not know the valve or appliance you will move 10 big steps backwards.
Should light up once you wet things out and get it going. Be sure you have a p30 psi pressure relief valve in place, a simple watts 30 is a good add on in case there is not one installed on the appliance.
Also pay attention to the venting, you have a proprietary euro style coaxial vent, usually these are good for about 15 feet max on this type appliance.
your pex loops are short, no problem with the built in pump.
Dan
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Dan
BlueRidgeCompany.com |
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kevkrete
New Member
Posts:5
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| 30 Jun 2010 06:47 PM |
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the vent is on , all is good. The presure valve goes on the outlet line ? Do I need an air trap ? |
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